The Great Schism
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War Doctor
Mr. S
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The Great Schism
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I write this because I am very curious about discussions with my Catholic and Orthodox friends. Both groups (Catholics and Orthodox) tell me that they are the true Church (with a capital "C"). To not join them is to put myself in the unenviable position of being outside the true Church. Yet, I want to ask: who is right, who truly has the authority? There was a great division: the Great Schism, which separated Catholics and Orthodox (West and East). How did that divide authority? Is it that one side retained all authority and the other side lost it unequivocally? Was there a 50/50 split? Does one side have the greater authority, but not the whole authority it once had? I wanted my Catholic and Orthodox friends to inform me of their perspective on this matter--hence this post.
I write this because I am very curious about discussions with my Catholic and Orthodox friends. Both groups (Catholics and Orthodox) tell me that they are the true Church (with a capital "C"). To not join them is to put myself in the unenviable position of being outside the true Church. Yet, I want to ask: who is right, who truly has the authority? There was a great division: the Great Schism, which separated Catholics and Orthodox (West and East). How did that divide authority? Is it that one side retained all authority and the other side lost it unequivocally? Was there a 50/50 split? Does one side have the greater authority, but not the whole authority it once had? I wanted my Catholic and Orthodox friends to inform me of their perspective on this matter--hence this post.
Mr. S- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
Say I chose to serve God by going out and murdering anyone I want, would I be free to do that?
Jehoshaphat- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
He was very cautious about accepting them. However, I would go farther and say they are ridiculous and mock God.Was Luther against indulgences?
It can be, yes. However, only those who do not wish free will for their child would inflict this.Do you think infant baptism can be practiced without the motivation of control?
Define "any way."Can one choose any way to serve God?
I'm not sure how this is relevant to any of this conversation?Say I chose to serve God by going out and murdering anyone I want, would I be free to do that?
Luther- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
So why do you admire a man who believed in something you think mocked God?
So I don't wish free will for my children?
I mean what are the limits on what I as an individual can decide is serving God?
So I don't wish free will for my children?
I mean what are the limits on what I as an individual can decide is serving God?
War Doctor- Administrator
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Re: The Great Schism
It is completely relevant because I am presenting a way to follow God. Maybe it would be the wrong way for you but it could be the right way for me. What would stop me from starting to murder people in order for me to honor God in the way I see fit?
Jehoshaphat- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
Have you ever admired someone who you didn't agree with his every stance?So why do you admire a man who believed in something you think mocked God?
That depends. Are you baptizing them?So I don't wish free will for my children?
Trying to determine what the "limits" are and how far one can "go" is a completely wrong approach to solving this. Jesus said He is the only way to God. That is a pretty basic answer.I mean what are the limits on what I as an individual can decide is serving God?
Seems to me then, that many groups have done that, including the Catholics. And no, not honoring God the way "we" see fit, but rather the way He sees fit. Completely wrong attitude.It is completely relevant because I am presenting a way to follow God. Maybe it would be the wrong way for you but it could be the right way for me. What would stop me from starting to murder people in order for me to honor God in the way I see fit?
Luther- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
You make a good point, I do admire people that I don't agree with completely
I will baptize my children
Okay but Jesus is the only way to God is a pretty incomplete answer. What if I say Jesus wasn't fully God? You say it's a pretty basic answer but I'm pretty sure you have more complex thoughts on how that works out in real life.
I will baptize my children
Okay but Jesus is the only way to God is a pretty incomplete answer. What if I say Jesus wasn't fully God? You say it's a pretty basic answer but I'm pretty sure you have more complex thoughts on how that works out in real life.
War Doctor- Administrator
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Re: The Great Schism
How can we know what He sees fit, wouldn't that be completely a matter of personal interpretation according to your view?
Jehoshaphat- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
If Jesus is the only way to God, then knowing what He says is a undoubtedly clear way to begin the process of knowing God.Okay but Jesus is the only way to God is a pretty incomplete answer. What if I say Jesus wasn't fully God? You say it's a pretty basic answer but I'm pretty sure you have more complex thoughts on how that works out in real life.
Are you of the opinion that God cannot help an individual find Him and must go through several layers of church authorities?How can we know what He sees fit, wouldn't that be completely a matter of personal interpretation according to your view?
Luther- Apprentice
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Yeah that is a very clear starting point but it seems like it'd get pretty complicated after that. I mean even that statement "If Jesus is the only way to God" is pretty complex. I mean who is Jesus? Man? God? Both? Do I get to make that call by myself? "the only way" what if that's not the case? What if there are other ways, I mean even in Acts we see people putting forth other ways besides Jesus. Then finally "God" that's pretty deep, is this the God of the Old Testament? If so how do you know that?
Do I as an individual have to, or even should I, figure out the answers to those questions in a vacuum?
Do I as an individual have to, or even should I, figure out the answers to those questions in a vacuum?
War Doctor- Administrator
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Re: The Great Schism
I believe that the way God shows the way is through the Church he established, not simply our own interpretation.
Jehoshaphat- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
Take all the scriptures that discuss this topic, and you have your answer.I mean who is Jesus? Man? God? Both?
It seems to me you are making this unnecessarily complicated.
Do I as an individual have to, or even should I, figure out the answers to those questions in a vacuum?
So let me get this straight, you believe scripture is a vacuum?
Luther- Apprentice
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Re: The Great Schism
No, Scripture is not a vacuum, first of all because we wouldn't have Scripture without authoritative dogma. I mean how did the Bible come about? But saying we need to take Scripture by itself by just "taking all the scripture that discuss this topic, and you have your answer" is ignoring the context of Scripture. That it was written by, to, and given in the context of the Church. Without that context we see what happens in Protestantism, tens of thousands of denominations all disagreeing.
You say I'm making this unnecessarily complicated, I think I'm actually the one arguing for simplicity. One Church not ten thousand denominations.
You say I'm making this unnecessarily complicated, I think I'm actually the one arguing for simplicity. One Church not ten thousand denominations.
War Doctor- Administrator
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Re: The Great Schism
So, why did the West keep the name "Catholic" and the East the name "Orthodox"?
Isaiah the Ox- Administrator
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