Holdeman Mennonite Q & A

If you have any questions about Holdeman Mennonite here is your chance to ask them!

What differences are there between Holdeman Mennonites and other Mennonites?

Now thats a pretty broad question! A simple answer would be that we are the followers of John Holdeman and the others would be what the old Mennonite church has become.

John H. left the Old Mennonite (OM) church because he felt they were failing in following some main doctrines. He searched out the scriptures and and patriarchs writings and established a church that followed the doctrines that the OM church had years before. That was the start.

Now there are many forms of Mennonites and some are extremely close to the Holdemans in doctrine and practice. There are also groups that call themselves Mennonites but you cant tell them apart in any way from "mainstream" (no offense meant) Christians. There are also some groups that don't differ much from the Amish. I like to say we are "middle of the road"

What main doctrines did he feel they were failing to follow? 

What are the patriarchs writings? 

How do "mainstream" Christian's act?

War Doctor wrote:What main doctrines did he feel they were failing to follow? 

What are the patriarchs writings?

How do "mainstream" Christian's act?

A major doctrine is that of expelleng those who have fallen into a serious sin, or do not have the fruits of living a Christ filled life. It is interesting to note that he was never expelled from the OM church and if they would have been following their doctrines they would have. Some other points he felt was wrong were that they driffting more and more into worldliness and allowing thing that he felt was detrimental to a sincere Christian life. Around the time he left there were several others that left and started other groups.

The writings I mentioned would be those of Menno Simons, who organized the Mennonite church, Detrich Phillips and others from the early church. He also had the writings of the commentators, such as Matthew Henry. He also relied heavily on the Bible, especially the NT.

As for the Mainstream Christian, I was using it as an illustration for a much more liberal lifestyle. We have a group that call themselves Mennonites near us that if you met one you could never tell them from any other non Anabaptists Christian.

Which sins would be serious enough to expel someone? 

How would you determine if someone doesn't have the fruits of a Christ filled life? 

When you say early church do you mean the reformers from around the 1500s? 

What are some worldly things that are detrimental to a sincere Christian life?

The sins worthy of being expelled for would include adultery fornication lying (this would be willful, premeditated lies) drunkenness rioting blasphemy etc. I think there may be a few others but I can't think of them right now.

If someone is living a Christ filled life the fruit of the Spirit will be present: love joy peace etc. They will also have victory over sin and temptation. If they have fallen away from Christ they will often have fallen into sin above and beyond those small things caused by human nature and will not have the grace to repent of them. They will also often admit to not having the power of the spirit in their lives. This is a condition that is proven by the entire congregation throughout much prayer.

I was mostly thinkin of the early Anabaptist leaders.

Anything that would cause us to put our trust in ourselves or this world instead of God: insurance, wealth, material possessions, etc.
Anything that would fill our minds and time with those things that are not edifying:movies, TV, worldly music, entertainment, sports, etc.
Anything that would become an idol: photography, sports, etc.

Photography? O_O

Explain how photography would be an idol?

What is the purpose of expelling? Aren't Christians supposed to help those who struggle with temptation, not ignore them? What even is expelling? 

How often can one drink alcohol and still be a Christian? Or, to state it differently, when is drinking too much?

We feel that pictures of one's self can lead to pride in themselves and their image.

Many people become so attached to their photos that they become their most prized possessions thus becoming an idol. We do allow photographs to be taken for legal and business use.



@Isaiah the Ox  The purpose of expelling some one for these sins is that we believe that they must be taken outside the church to be forgiven. (Mat. 18:15-17, 1 Cor 5:11) By expelling them, we in no way ignore them. When they are expelled they have their church membership taken from them and they are not allowed to take part in services,except to testify, sit at the same table as members to eat, or greet members. We are encouraged to help and encourage them in any way possible, and especially to pray for them.  We feel it is an act of love to expel them because we believe they can never be forgiven if they remain in the church. Most are only expelled a few weeks or months before they are re-accepted, some only a few days.

Drunkenness would be to become intoxicated to some degree. I know that one drink wouldn't be grounds for expelling, unless that person would for some reason become intoxicated. The problem is that one drink so often leads to a second and a third and more. Even if one person were able to have enough self-control that he only would drink one, what of the person that didn't have that self-control. We do not allow any alcoholic drinks due to this and the adverse affects it can have. We feel our bodies are God's temple and we must treat them as such.

Do you think Christ drank wine? 

What is an acceptable level of material possessions to own?

So, because some people misuse photos, they should be banned altogether?

Do you celebrate Christmas?

War Doctor wrote:Do you think Christ drank wine?

I think it is a proven fact that Jesus drank wine while on earth.

War Doctor wrote:What is an acceptable level of material possessions to own?

We don't have any set limit or guidelines on that. It is more how we use the  money and the spirit behind the wealth. Someone who has very little money but is materialistic about it, very little can be too much for them, and someone who is very wealthy, but is humble about it and generous with it, using it to the furthering of the gospel, much can be acceptable.

SirWhit wrote:So, because some people misuse photos, they should be banned altogether?

Are you starting a debate? This is a Q & A!   I never said that was the only reason to not use photography, rather it was an answer as to why photos can become idols.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:Do you celebrate Christmas?

Of Course! Isn't Christmas a Christian Holiday? Am I not a Christian? We don't use Christmas lights or trees or have anything to do with Santa Clause because it takes away from the true meaning of Christmas, which is to celebrate the birth of Christ.

So if Jesus drank wine why do you ban it? 

Mod Note: We can start a photo debate if Farmer wishes but we should keep the Q&A threads debate free, thank you.

Can holidays be Christian?

Can you read fiction?

War Doctor wrote:So if Jesus drank wine why do you ban it? 

We do not use alcoholic beverages because we feel that our bodies are the Temple of God and we should treat it as such. The use of wine was banned at a time when the misuse of alcohol was rampant ('60s & '70s). Until then there were a few people that used a little. Also there would not have been strong alcoholic drinks at Jesus time because the science of distilling had not yet been learned. If we drink wine then maybe a little beer or some whiskey wouldn't be to bad and soon there would be some that misuse it.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:Can holidays be Christian?

Is something that is based on a happening in Christian history not Christian event? 

Isaiah the Ox wrote:Can you read fiction?

Yes we can, and do. We are encouraged not to read books that would portray or glorify immorality and violence, or books that would teach things that are against our Doctrine. I personally prefer Non-fiction.

How near does everyone within the church live? Do people attend who live several hours away?

Most people would live within maybe 10 miles of the church they attend. There are those that would live farther away also. I know of some that would be well over an hour from a church. We do have congregations all over though.

What are your thoughts on Halloween, Valentines Day and Easter?

We don't observe Halloween because of the many superstitions about spirits and ghosts, etc. that go with it, and also our church doesn't honor the saints the way many other churches do. I do know that halloween started as a time to honor and remember the saints, martyrs, etc. that have died, but it has changed more into a holiday celebrating death and spirits.

I really don't know what to say about Valentines Day...    We do give our spouses cards or maybe some chocolate and sometime go out for a meal, but it isn't really a major holiday, and we kind of treat it as a joke.

We do observe Easter as a time of remembering Jesus' death. We don't do all the bunnies and eggs (not sure what they have to do with Easter or how they go together even ) and such. It is a very solemn time.  We usually have an Easter Friday service at church and then an Easter service on Sunday morning. We also would sometimes use the occasion to take a service or a rescue mission or something similar.

Farmer wrote:I was mostly thinkin of the early Anabaptist leaders.

Who gave them authority? Why is it above the authority or the Early Church? Don't you just need the Bible, anyway?

Isaiah the Ox wrote:Who gave them authority? Why is it above the authority or the Early Church?

I'm not exactly sure what your question is here?  When I mentioned that, I was talking about the changes that John Holdeman made which caused him to leave the old mennonite church and where his direction came from. The early anabaptist leaders were led of the Holy Spirit through reading the Bible.

Isaiah the Ox wrote: Don't you just need the Bible, anyway?

I believe that a person can and have been saved with the Bible as the only spiritual book he has to read.  It is a huge help to have other's writings and help. They can help a person understand the scriptures better.

I know what the Holdemans believe about photographs but do you personally believe that too?

Do you believe that the Holdeman church is the One True Church?

Do you agree with everything the Holdeman church teaches?

Actually, it was in reply to this:

War Doctor wrote:When you say early church do you mean the reformers from around the 1500s? 

which was referring to a comment you made about the "Early Church" being the "Anabaptist reformation." My question was, why did Holdeman search the writings of the Anabaptists from the 16th Century, rather than writings before that, or even writings of early church, 1st-2nd century? Why are the Anabaptist leaders more important?